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Posted bySimon (Administrator) from Random House Group Digitalon 11-11-2008 at 19:00:15
Questions for Tim Butcher
A big welcome to Tim Butcher, author of Blood River, who has kindly joined us today from Jerusalem. Please feel free to post questions about the book in this thread and Tim will endeavour to answer them.
I hope everyone has a great discussion!
A big welcome to Tim Butcher, author of Blood River, who has kindly joined us today from Jerusalem. Please feel free to post questions about the book in this thread and Tim will endeavour to answer them.
I hope everyone has a great discussion!
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:02:46
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Hi Tim
I represent 2 of the Readers Groups in Barnsley, South Yorkshire. Several of us have read Blood River and have questions for you. My own question- were you planning to write a book before you set off on the journey?
Jill Craven
Hi Tim
I represent 2 of the Readers Groups in Barnsley, South Yorkshire. Several of us have read Blood River and have questions for you. My own question- were you planning to write a book before you set off on the journey?
Jill Craven
Posted by claire m (Administrator)on 11-11-2008 at 19:02:54
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I would like to welcome all the reading groups who have agreed to take part today. Thank for joining us and I look forward to seeing the interesting quesitons that come up.
I would like to welcome all the reading groups who have agreed to take part today. Thank for joining us and I look forward to seeing the interesting quesitons that come up.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:02:54
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Tim Butcher here from my home on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem ( I am currently serving as the Telegraph's Middle East correspondent ).
I might live in the Mid East but my heart remains back in the Great Lakes region, a region that is sadly blighted today with yet more violence.
Tim Butcher here from my home on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem ( I am currently serving as the Telegraph's Middle East correspondent ).
I might live in the Mid East but my heart remains back in the Great Lakes region, a region that is sadly blighted today with yet more violence.
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:04:57
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Would you consider writing about the Middle East, a place much like the Congo in that a peacful setelemnat seems inconceivable
Jill C
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
Tim Butcher here from my home on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem ( I am currently serving as the Telegraph's Middle East correspondent ).
I might live in the Mid East but my heart remains back in the Great Lakes region, a region that is sadly blighted today with yet more violence.
Tim Butcher here from my home on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem ( I am currently serving as the Telegraph's Middle East correspondent ).
I might live in the Mid East but my heart remains back in the Great Lakes region, a region that is sadly blighted today with yet more violence.
Would you consider writing about the Middle East, a place much like the Congo in that a peacful setelemnat seems inconceivable
Jill C
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:06:17
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Reply to Jill Craven
When I started the journey I had no book deal, no agent, no nothing. A book was only a secondary consideration.
The primary consideration was in the trip itself. As you know from the book it had been three years in the planning stage and I had honestly no idea when I started out from Joburg whether the journey would end in failure after a few days or, worse still, take me the rest of my life.
The book only developed after I actually finished the trip.
Originally posted by jill craven
Hi Tim
I represent 2 of the Readers Groups in Barnsley, South Yorkshire. Several of us have read Blood River and have questions for you. My own question- were you planning to write a book before you set off on the journey?
Jill Craven
Hi Tim
I represent 2 of the Readers Groups in Barnsley, South Yorkshire. Several of us have read Blood River and have questions for you. My own question- were you planning to write a book before you set off on the journey?
Jill Craven
Reply to Jill Craven
When I started the journey I had no book deal, no agent, no nothing. A book was only a secondary consideration.
The primary consideration was in the trip itself. As you know from the book it had been three years in the planning stage and I had honestly no idea when I started out from Joburg whether the journey would end in failure after a few days or, worse still, take me the rest of my life.
The book only developed after I actually finished the trip.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:08:13
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
Originally posted by jill craven
Would you consider writing about the Middle East, a place much like the Congo in that a peacful setelemnat seems inconceivable
Jill C
Would you consider writing about the Middle East, a place much like the Congo in that a peacful setelemnat seems inconceivable
Jill C
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:11:07
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Do you feel that being chosen as a Richard and Judy title has helped to get your book across to a wider audience? Or does it have a "dumbing down " effect?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
Do you feel that being chosen as a Richard and Judy title has helped to get your book across to a wider audience? Or does it have a "dumbing down " effect?
Posted by Nicole (Administrator) from Random House Group Digitalon 11-11-2008 at 19:11:53
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Hi Tim,
Could you explain to us your "sense of connection and obsession" with the Congo, please? What exactly made your trip to the Congo such a special experience?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
No plans for a Middle East book. I have not felt the same sense of connection and obsession here in the Middle East, that I felt with the Congo.
Hi Tim,
Could you explain to us your "sense of connection and obsession" with the Congo, please? What exactly made your trip to the Congo such a special experience?
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:18:29
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
The connection came in part from learning that the Telegraph had sent Stanley to Africa and 126 years later it had sent me. It is difficult to overstate the impact of Stanley's Congo trip on the history of Africa as it started the colonial land grab for the continent's hinterland. In 2000 I was reading about events that were largely caused by post colonialism and yet they could all trace their roots back to Stanley.
So I felt a slight connection there. But also through my mother, a connection with a place she remembered as being `normal' but which had become so `abnormal' by the time I got to study it.
And the obsession came from the Congo's latent menace, its wonderful sense of portent and mystery that made it a place too tricky for outsiders to decode and too dangerous for outsiders to visit. That sense of menace made it a challenge for me and eventhough I was told it could not be done, the obession meant I dedicated years to working out how it might be done.
Originally posted by Nicole
Hi Tim,
Could you explain to us your "sense of connection and obsession" with the Congo, please? What exactly made your trip to the Congo such a special experience?
Hi Tim,
Could you explain to us your "sense of connection and obsession" with the Congo, please? What exactly made your trip to the Congo such a special experience?
The connection came in part from learning that the Telegraph had sent Stanley to Africa and 126 years later it had sent me. It is difficult to overstate the impact of Stanley's Congo trip on the history of Africa as it started the colonial land grab for the continent's hinterland. In 2000 I was reading about events that were largely caused by post colonialism and yet they could all trace their roots back to Stanley.
So I felt a slight connection there. But also through my mother, a connection with a place she remembered as being `normal' but which had become so `abnormal' by the time I got to study it.
And the obsession came from the Congo's latent menace, its wonderful sense of portent and mystery that made it a place too tricky for outsiders to decode and too dangerous for outsiders to visit. That sense of menace made it a challenge for me and eventhough I was told it could not be done, the obession meant I dedicated years to working out how it might be done.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:22:47
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I see the Richard and Judy effect as having extended the reach of a book that might not otherwise have gleaned a great audience. The Congo is a tricky subject, often so complicated as to be opaque and also dark. Events in eastern Congo today simply re-emphasise that.
But I find it the greatest untold human drama on the planet and so I was delighted the R&J chose the book and brought the Congo more attention that it would otherwise have received.
I hoped to have created a book that can be read on a number of levels. In part there is my adventure but in part it is a history and in part it is a piece of literature.
How do you regard the book? As one of these, all of these or something else?
Originally posted by jill craven
Do you feel that being chosen as a Richard and Judy title has helped to get your book across to a wider audience? Or does it have a "dumbing down " effect?
Do you feel that being chosen as a Richard and Judy title has helped to get your book across to a wider audience? Or does it have a "dumbing down " effect?
I see the Richard and Judy effect as having extended the reach of a book that might not otherwise have gleaned a great audience. The Congo is a tricky subject, often so complicated as to be opaque and also dark. Events in eastern Congo today simply re-emphasise that.
But I find it the greatest untold human drama on the planet and so I was delighted the R&J chose the book and brought the Congo more attention that it would otherwise have received.
I hoped to have created a book that can be read on a number of levels. In part there is my adventure but in part it is a history and in part it is a piece of literature.
How do you regard the book? As one of these, all of these or something else?
Posted by raggie (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:25:53
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
• Although the UN is present they appear ineffectual and mostly indifferent to the plight of the people, seemingly wanting to get in and out as quickly as possible. We give more air time and make more fuss about the gorillas’ habitat being destroyed than we do about the genocide of its people. For what reason do you think the western world continues to stand-by and let all these atrocities persist.
• Although the UN is present they appear ineffectual and mostly indifferent to the plight of the people, seemingly wanting to get in and out as quickly as possible. We give more air time and make more fuss about the gorillas’ habitat being destroyed than we do about the genocide of its people. For what reason do you think the western world continues to stand-by and let all these atrocities persist.
Posted by Nicole (Administrator) from Random House Group Digitalon 11-11-2008 at 19:26:03
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
The connection came in part from learning that the Telegraph had sent Stanley to Africa and 126 years later it had sent me. It is difficult to overstate the impact of Stanley's Congo trip on the history of Africa as it started the colonial land grab for the continent's hinterland. In 2000 I was reading about events that were largely caused by post colonialism and yet they could all trace their roots back to Stanley.
So I felt a slight connection there. But also through my mother, a connection with a place she remembered as being `normal' but which had become so `abnormal' by the time I got to study it.
And the obsession came from the Congo's latent menace, its wonderful sense of portent and mystery that made it a place too tricky for outsiders to decode and too dangerous for outsiders to visit. That sense of menace made it a challenge for me and eventhough I was told it could not be done, the obession meant I dedicated years to working out how it might be done.
The connection came in part from learning that the Telegraph had sent Stanley to Africa and 126 years later it had sent me. It is difficult to overstate the impact of Stanley's Congo trip on the history of Africa as it started the colonial land grab for the continent's hinterland. In 2000 I was reading about events that were largely caused by post colonialism and yet they could all trace their roots back to Stanley.
So I felt a slight connection there. But also through my mother, a connection with a place she remembered as being `normal' but which had become so `abnormal' by the time I got to study it.
And the obsession came from the Congo's latent menace, its wonderful sense of portent and mystery that made it a place too tricky for outsiders to decode and too dangerous for outsiders to visit. That sense of menace made it a challenge for me and eventhough I was told it could not be done, the obession meant I dedicated years to working out how it might be done.
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:28:57
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I agree that its a book to be read on many levels- adventure, documentary, literature. I agree that the R and J effect can be a positive one- as far as I'm concerned, anything which gets people reADing is fine by me.
Can I just add that I have a whole sheet of questions from the Readers Groups which are sitting in my office- had to evacuate at 5pm due to bomb hoax! May I e mail them to you later this week?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
I see the Richard and Judy effect as having extended the reach of a book that might not otherwise have gleaned a great audience. The Congo is a tricky subject, often so complicated as to be opaque and also dark. Events in eastern Congo today simply re-emphasise that.
But I find it the greatest untold human drama on the planet and so I was delighted the R&J chose the book and brought the Congo more attention that it would otherwise have received.
I hoped to have created a book that can be read on a number of levels. In part there is my adventure but in part it is a history and in part it is a piece of literature.
How do you regard the book? As one of these, all of these or something else?
I see the Richard and Judy effect as having extended the reach of a book that might not otherwise have gleaned a great audience. The Congo is a tricky subject, often so complicated as to be opaque and also dark. Events in eastern Congo today simply re-emphasise that.
But I find it the greatest untold human drama on the planet and so I was delighted the R&J chose the book and brought the Congo more attention that it would otherwise have received.
I hoped to have created a book that can be read on a number of levels. In part there is my adventure but in part it is a history and in part it is a piece of literature.
How do you regard the book? As one of these, all of these or something else?
I agree that its a book to be read on many levels- adventure, documentary, literature. I agree that the R and J effect can be a positive one- as far as I'm concerned, anything which gets people reADing is fine by me.
Can I just add that I have a whole sheet of questions from the Readers Groups which are sitting in my office- had to evacuate at 5pm due to bomb hoax! May I e mail them to you later this week?
Posted by raggie (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:29:01
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
• Sadly, I think the comments made by Ali, the barge Captain are true; other countries after gaining independence from their 'masters' have found their place in the world. So why do you think Africa so very, very different?
• Sadly, I think the comments made by Ali, the barge Captain are true; other countries after gaining independence from their 'masters' have found their place in the world. So why do you think Africa so very, very different?
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:30:19
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
Originally posted by raggie
• Although the UN is present they appear ineffectual and mostly indifferent to the plight of the people, seemingly wanting to get in and out as quickly as possible. We give more air time and make more fuss about the gorillas’ habitat being destroyed than we do about the genocide of its people. For what reason do you think the western world continues to stand-by and let all these atrocities persist.
• Although the UN is present they appear ineffectual and mostly indifferent to the plight of the people, seemingly wanting to get in and out as quickly as possible. We give more air time and make more fuss about the gorillas’ habitat being destroyed than we do about the genocide of its people. For what reason do you think the western world continues to stand-by and let all these atrocities persist.
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
Posted by crystal (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:30:26
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
Originally posted by Nicole
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:32:17
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
What excites me is not the cordite and chaos but the fact you see emotions at their most raw. You see people stripped of all artifice, making choices for the purest of motives - often, survival. It is seeing people at their most honest and, I think, that is what I find fascinating.
Originally posted by Nicole
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
As a reporter who you have visited other dangerous locations like Basra or Sarajevo. What "excites" you about such dangerous places? Had you always intended to report on such regions?
What excites me is not the cordite and chaos but the fact you see emotions at their most raw. You see people stripped of all artifice, making choices for the purest of motives - often, survival. It is seeing people at their most honest and, I think, that is what I find fascinating.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:34:29
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Yes, of course. I hope it was just a hoax.
Please use timbo@myisp.co.za and I will do my best to answer them.
I think R&J do a great service, showing that in this multi media age of countless virtual temptations, books can still hold the highground. I have always loved books and to the extent that R&J help books, I think they are a good thing.
Originally posted by jill craven
I agree that its a book to be read on many levels- adventure, documentary, literature. I agree that the R and J effect can be a positive one- as far as I'm concerned, anything which gets people reADing is fine by me.
Can I just add that I have a whole sheet of questions from the Readers Groups which are sitting in my office- had to evacuate at 5pm due to bomb hoax! May I e mail them to you later this week?
I agree that its a book to be read on many levels- adventure, documentary, literature. I agree that the R and J effect can be a positive one- as far as I'm concerned, anything which gets people reADing is fine by me.
Can I just add that I have a whole sheet of questions from the Readers Groups which are sitting in my office- had to evacuate at 5pm due to bomb hoax! May I e mail them to you later this week?
Yes, of course. I hope it was just a hoax.
Please use timbo@myisp.co.za and I will do my best to answer them.
I think R&J do a great service, showing that in this multi media age of countless virtual temptations, books can still hold the highground. I have always loved books and to the extent that R&J help books, I think they are a good thing.
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:35:50
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Here in Barnsley we heard Kate Adie speak recently- she seems to have very much the same approach as you do to the danger of life as a war correspondent-it literally seeing life in the raw which holds the appeal. Where do you envisage being based after Jerusalem? Afghanistan perhaps?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
What excites me is not the cordite and chaos but the fact you see emotions at their most raw. You see people stripped of all artifice, making choices for the purest of motives - often, survival. It is seeing people at their most honest and, I think, that is what I find fascinating.
What excites me is not the cordite and chaos but the fact you see emotions at their most raw. You see people stripped of all artifice, making choices for the purest of motives - often, survival. It is seeing people at their most honest and, I think, that is what I find fascinating.
Here in Barnsley we heard Kate Adie speak recently- she seems to have very much the same approach as you do to the danger of life as a war correspondent-it literally seeing life in the raw which holds the appeal. Where do you envisage being based after Jerusalem? Afghanistan perhaps?
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:37:04
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Of all the remarks in my book, those made by Ali have been seized on more by readers than any others.
He asks the million dollar question,`why are Africans so bad at running Africa'.
I have no simple answer but I will say this. The vast majority of decent, hard-working, honest people in the Congo - the guys that carried me through on my journey - will prevail one day. Of that I have no doubt.
It's just it will take time for their voice to silence the violent, greedy, minority that hijacks the continent currently.
Originally posted by raggie
• Sadly, I think the comments made by Ali, the barge Captain are true; other countries after gaining independence from their 'masters' have found their place in the world. So why do you think Africa so very, very different?
• Sadly, I think the comments made by Ali, the barge Captain are true; other countries after gaining independence from their 'masters' have found their place in the world. So why do you think Africa so very, very different?
Of all the remarks in my book, those made by Ali have been seized on more by readers than any others.
He asks the million dollar question,`why are Africans so bad at running Africa'.
I have no simple answer but I will say this. The vast majority of decent, hard-working, honest people in the Congo - the guys that carried me through on my journey - will prevail one day. Of that I have no doubt.
It's just it will take time for their voice to silence the violent, greedy, minority that hijacks the continent currently.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:41:04
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
The scale of the journey (3,000kms with no resupply) meant taking my own food was simply not posssible. I would have to survive off the land and no amount of dried food would save me from that.
I was not trying to emulate Stanley in carrying vast amounts of supplies because all the good local advice I was given insisted I travel light and fast.
I have spent years in Africa and have never found a water purifying tablet that works! Boiling and cooling is the only effective way.
Originally posted by crystal
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
The scale of the journey (3,000kms with no resupply) meant taking my own food was simply not posssible. I would have to survive off the land and no amount of dried food would save me from that.
I was not trying to emulate Stanley in carrying vast amounts of supplies because all the good local advice I was given insisted I travel light and fast.
I have spent years in Africa and have never found a water purifying tablet that works! Boiling and cooling is the only effective way.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:44:02
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
No plans for Afghanistan but I will be returning to Sierra Leone and Liberia. I went to both places when they were in the grip of the most awful fighting but now there seems to be more hope of peace.
My guide for the trip will be Graham Greene. Of all places he chose Liberia for his first trip outside Europe. In 1935 he crossed Liberia and so I am going to try to find his original route and use his book - Journey Without Maps - as a reference point to see where that region was and how it got to where it is today.
With luck, it will become my next book
Originally posted by jill craven
Here in Barnsley we heard Kate Adie speak recently- she seems to have very much the same approach as you do to the danger of life as a war correspondent-it literally seeing life in the raw which holds the appeal. Where do you envisage being based after Jerusalem? Afghanistan perhaps?
Here in Barnsley we heard Kate Adie speak recently- she seems to have very much the same approach as you do to the danger of life as a war correspondent-it literally seeing life in the raw which holds the appeal. Where do you envisage being based after Jerusalem? Afghanistan perhaps?
No plans for Afghanistan but I will be returning to Sierra Leone and Liberia. I went to both places when they were in the grip of the most awful fighting but now there seems to be more hope of peace.
My guide for the trip will be Graham Greene. Of all places he chose Liberia for his first trip outside Europe. In 1935 he crossed Liberia and so I am going to try to find his original route and use his book - Journey Without Maps - as a reference point to see where that region was and how it got to where it is today.
With luck, it will become my next book
Posted by jennifer (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:44:14
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
In your personal opinion, how would you like to see the Western political and entrepreneurial bodies, but also Western society, make a difference in the Congo?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
In your personal opinion, how would you like to see the Western political and entrepreneurial bodies, but also Western society, make a difference in the Congo?
Posted by raggie (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:44:43
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
• The white man throughout history always considered himself superior to the Negro; and it’s as true now as it was Stanley’s time, a belief that colonisation brought with it civilisation. Throughout history we’re led to believe that African mothers do not love and nurture their children in the way the so-called civilised world does – what was your experience of family ties and relationships? Other than the man who wanted you to take away his only son?
• The white man throughout history always considered himself superior to the Negro; and it’s as true now as it was Stanley’s time, a belief that colonisation brought with it civilisation. Throughout history we’re led to believe that African mothers do not love and nurture their children in the way the so-called civilised world does – what was your experience of family ties and relationships? Other than the man who wanted you to take away his only son?
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:45:46
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Re the food supplies- I found it very moving that people who have so little were so willing to share with you , a stranger. I cannot imagine the same thing happening here
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
The scale of the journey (3,000kms with no resupply) meant taking my own food was simply not posssible. I would have to survive off the land and no amount of dried food would save me from that.
I was not trying to emulate Stanley in carrying vast amounts of supplies because all the good local advice I was given insisted I travel light and fast.
I have spent years in Africa and have never found a water purifying tablet that works! Boiling and cooling is the only effective way.
The scale of the journey (3,000kms with no resupply) meant taking my own food was simply not posssible. I would have to survive off the land and no amount of dried food would save me from that.
I was not trying to emulate Stanley in carrying vast amounts of supplies because all the good local advice I was given insisted I travel light and fast.
I have spent years in Africa and have never found a water purifying tablet that works! Boiling and cooling is the only effective way.
Re the food supplies- I found it very moving that people who have so little were so willing to share with you , a stranger. I cannot imagine the same thing happening here
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:47:10
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I wanted to avoid trying a military-style operation in the Congo, with bearers/supply boxes and the like. That would have been too much like Stanley!
I wanted to travel through an area and my strategy for survival was to find the best local advice. They said travel fast and light, so that's what I did.
Originally posted by crystal
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
Hi Tim,
Six of our book group members discussed the book today, which we had all enjoyed a great deal; we found it especially poignant in the light of all the current dreadful Congo news. One question we all had was why on earth you didn’t take lots of food with you?? Military style dried food would seem to have been ideal – light and takes up little room. Also water purifying tablets.
I wanted to avoid trying a military-style operation in the Congo, with bearers/supply boxes and the like. That would have been too much like Stanley!
I wanted to travel through an area and my strategy for survival was to find the best local advice. They said travel fast and light, so that's what I did.
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 19:47:16
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
That sounds fascinating- hope you get a book out of it and that we will be lucky enough to read and discuss it with you!
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
No plans for Afghanistan but I will be returning to Sierra Leone and Liberia. I went to both places when they were in the grip of the most awful fighting but now there seems to be more hope of peace.
My guide for the trip will be Graham Greene. Of all places he chose Liberia for his first trip outside Europe. In 1935 he crossed Liberia and so I am going to try to find his original route and use his book - Journey Without Maps - as a reference point to see where that region was and how it got to where it is today.
With luck, it will become my next book
No plans for Afghanistan but I will be returning to Sierra Leone and Liberia. I went to both places when they were in the grip of the most awful fighting but now there seems to be more hope of peace.
My guide for the trip will be Graham Greene. Of all places he chose Liberia for his first trip outside Europe. In 1935 he crossed Liberia and so I am going to try to find his original route and use his book - Journey Without Maps - as a reference point to see where that region was and how it got to where it is today.
With luck, it will become my next book
That sounds fascinating- hope you get a book out of it and that we will be lucky enough to read and discuss it with you!
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:50:41
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I would demand greater transparency.
If companies mine/work/take profit in the Congo, I would demand that their figures are published. So we can see who gets what, what bribes are paid, where the money goes.
Money is the driver for so much and the sense of anger and resentment from Congolese left with nothing by their leaders is the driver for so much of the chaos
Originally posted by jennifer
In your personal opinion, how would you like to see the Western political and entrepreneurial bodies, but also Western society, make a difference in the Congo?
In your personal opinion, how would you like to see the Western political and entrepreneurial bodies, but also Western society, make a difference in the Congo?
I would demand greater transparency.
If companies mine/work/take profit in the Congo, I would demand that their figures are published. So we can see who gets what, what bribes are paid, where the money goes.
Money is the driver for so much and the sense of anger and resentment from Congolese left with nothing by their leaders is the driver for so much of the chaos
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:52:26
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Anyone who has been to Africa knows that is nonsense. Mother Africa is no different from any other mother in their love and loyalty for their children.
Poor Miriam Makeba passed away yesterday. Now there was a true Mother Africa
Originally posted by raggie
• The white man throughout history always considered himself superior to the Negro; and it’s as true now as it was Stanley’s time, a belief that colonisation brought with it civilisation. Throughout history we’re led to believe that African mothers do not love and nurture their children in the way the so-called civilised world does – what was your experience of family ties and relationships? Other than the man who wanted you to take away his only son?
• The white man throughout history always considered himself superior to the Negro; and it’s as true now as it was Stanley’s time, a belief that colonisation brought with it civilisation. Throughout history we’re led to believe that African mothers do not love and nurture their children in the way the so-called civilised world does – what was your experience of family ties and relationships? Other than the man who wanted you to take away his only son?
Anyone who has been to Africa knows that is nonsense. Mother Africa is no different from any other mother in their love and loyalty for their children.
Poor Miriam Makeba passed away yesterday. Now there was a true Mother Africa
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:53:25
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
You are right.
The heroes of Blood River are the many Congolese who, in spite of the matrix of suffering they are trapped in, gave me everything they had - food, support, security.
It was humbling
Originally posted by jill craven
Re the food supplies- I found it very moving that people who have so little were so willing to share with you , a stranger. I cannot imagine the same thing happening here
Re the food supplies- I found it very moving that people who have so little were so willing to share with you , a stranger. I cannot imagine the same thing happening here
You are right.
The heroes of Blood River are the many Congolese who, in spite of the matrix of suffering they are trapped in, gave me everything they had - food, support, security.
It was humbling
Posted by james g (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:54:36
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
In how far has this brave journey changed your life? In your daily life, do you often reflect back on your experience in the Congo?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
I wanted to avoid trying a military-style operation in the Congo, with bearers/supply boxes and the like. That would have been too much like Stanley!
I wanted to travel through an area and my strategy for survival was to find the best local advice. They said travel fast and light, so that's what I did.
I wanted to avoid trying a military-style operation in the Congo, with bearers/supply boxes and the like. That would have been too much like Stanley!
I wanted to travel through an area and my strategy for survival was to find the best local advice. They said travel fast and light, so that's what I did.
In how far has this brave journey changed your life? In your daily life, do you often reflect back on your experience in the Congo?
Posted by raggie (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 19:54:44
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
When posing my question to you I thought would 'oil' make a difference, sad you should think same.
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
It stands by because of fear, lack of understanding and a sense of fatigue. The world has been trying to help the Congo for a very long time. In the early 1960s the UN Sec General died in the Congo trying to negotiate peace and more UN peacekeepers died there in combat than on any UN mission since.
But the fact that it rolled on and on, the violence, the turmoil and the suffering, has instilled a huge sense of fatigue about the Congo in policy makers around the world. Their attitude, in short, is that it has always been like that in the Congo and they don't want to make the extra effort to try to solve ie.
Things would be different if the world's oil came from eastern Congo! Then the world would make the extra effort to ensure things were not as bad as they are.
When posing my question to you I thought would 'oil' make a difference, sad you should think same.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:57:43
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
There's not a day that goes by without me revisting the Congo in spirit at least.
I work in the Middle East now so I would say my head is here but my heart remains in the Congo. I know a fair bit about the place now but what is so exciting is that I keep on learning.
Through the book I meet people from the Congo who have the most amazing stories. I was hugely lucky in my journey and it remains the most rewarding thing I have ever done.
But as I wrote elsewhere in this discussion, the Congo is the greatest untold human drama on the planet and it is a drama that has no end.
Originally posted by james g
In how far has this brave journey changed your life? In your daily life, do you often reflect back on your experience in the Congo?
In how far has this brave journey changed your life? In your daily life, do you often reflect back on your experience in the Congo?
There's not a day that goes by without me revisting the Congo in spirit at least.
I work in the Middle East now so I would say my head is here but my heart remains in the Congo. I know a fair bit about the place now but what is so exciting is that I keep on learning.
Through the book I meet people from the Congo who have the most amazing stories. I was hugely lucky in my journey and it remains the most rewarding thing I have ever done.
But as I wrote elsewhere in this discussion, the Congo is the greatest untold human drama on the planet and it is a drama that has no end.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 19:59:46
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Seriously now, the uranium mines of Shinkolobwe in Katanga should give the world reason to care about the Congo.
If America is scared of dirty bombs etc from its Al Qa'eda-style enemies, then it should keep a close eye on those mines.
We know they produce weapons grade uranium. Hiroshima was blown up with uranium from there
Originally posted by raggie
When posing my question to you I thought would 'oil' make a difference, sad you should think same.
When posing my question to you I thought would 'oil' make a difference, sad you should think same.
Seriously now, the uranium mines of Shinkolobwe in Katanga should give the world reason to care about the Congo.
If America is scared of dirty bombs etc from its Al Qa'eda-style enemies, then it should keep a close eye on those mines.
We know they produce weapons grade uranium. Hiroshima was blown up with uranium from there
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 20:01:04
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
There's not a day that goes by without me revisting the Congo in spirit at least.
I work in the Middle East now so I would say my head is here but my heart remains in the Congo. I know a fair bit about the place now but what is so exciting is that I keep on learning.
Through the book I meet people from the Congo who have the most amazing stories. I was hugely lucky in my journey and it remains the most rewarding thing I have ever done.
But as I wrote elsewhere in this discussion, the Congo is the greatest untold human drama on the planet and it is a drama that has no end.
There's not a day that goes by without me revisting the Congo in spirit at least.
I work in the Middle East now so I would say my head is here but my heart remains in the Congo. I know a fair bit about the place now but what is so exciting is that I keep on learning.
Through the book I meet people from the Congo who have the most amazing stories. I was hugely lucky in my journey and it remains the most rewarding thing I have ever done.
But as I wrote elsewhere in this discussion, the Congo is the greatest untold human drama on the planet and it is a drama that has no end.
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 20:03:24
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
What is amazing Jill is the number of outsiders who go to the Congo and feel something powerful.
Whether it was Conrad and his sense of menace in the forest, or Graham Greene moved to write his novel A Burnt Out Case or Louise Wright, the Anglican teacher/missionary I met in eastern Congo.
It has a power that I feel nowhere else on the planet, at once tantalising and terrifying.
Originally posted by jill craven
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
What is amazing Jill is the number of outsiders who go to the Congo and feel something powerful.
Whether it was Conrad and his sense of menace in the forest, or Graham Greene moved to write his novel A Burnt Out Case or Louise Wright, the Anglican teacher/missionary I met in eastern Congo.
It has a power that I feel nowhere else on the planet, at once tantalising and terrifying.
Posted by Simon (Administrator) from Random House Group Digitalon 11-11-2008 at 20:03:28
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Tim, I'd just like to say a big thank you on behalf of Random House and our participants today for your wonderful answers.
Thank you to all who posted questions. I hope you enjoyed discussing Blood River.
You'll be able to read the discussion online in its entirety once the session has ended.
Tim, I'd just like to say a big thank you on behalf of Random House and our participants today for your wonderful answers.
Thank you to all who posted questions. I hope you enjoyed discussing Blood River.
You'll be able to read the discussion online in its entirety once the session has ended.
Posted by james g (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 20:04:00
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I totally agree - and even more, your book puts the Congo into the heart of its readers!
Originally posted by jill craven
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
I think the fact that the Congo is in your heart is evident to anyone reading the book.
I totally agree - and even more, your book puts the Congo into the heart of its readers!
Posted by claire m (Administrator)on 11-11-2008 at 20:04:01
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Thank you everyone who took part. The chat has been really interesting.
Originally posted by Simon
Tim, I'd just like to say a big thank you on behalf of Random House and our participants today for your wonderful answers.
Thank you to all who posted questions. I hope you enjoyed discussing Blood River.
You'll be able to read the discussion online in its entirety once the session has ended.
Tim, I'd just like to say a big thank you on behalf of Random House and our participants today for your wonderful answers.
Thank you to all who posted questions. I hope you enjoyed discussing Blood River.
You'll be able to read the discussion online in its entirety once the session has ended.
Thank you everyone who took part. The chat has been really interesting.
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 20:04:32
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
Seriously now, the uranium mines of Shinkolobwe in Katanga should give the world reason to care about the Congo.
If America is scared of dirty bombs etc from its Al Qa'eda-style enemies, then it should keep a close eye on those mines.
We know they produce weapons grade uranium. Hiroshima was blown up with uranium from there
Seriously now, the uranium mines of Shinkolobwe in Katanga should give the world reason to care about the Congo.
If America is scared of dirty bombs etc from its Al Qa'eda-style enemies, then it should keep a close eye on those mines.
We know they produce weapons grade uranium. Hiroshima was blown up with uranium from there
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
Posted by raggie (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 20:06:11
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
• It was heartbreaking to read that the grandfathers knew more about the ‘modern’ world than their grandchildren. How awful for these men to have had a degree of education only to go spiralling backwards and to note that it is the forest that offers sanctuary and not the towns.
• It was heartbreaking to read that the grandfathers knew more about the ‘modern’ world than their grandchildren. How awful for these men to have had a degree of education only to go spiralling backwards and to note that it is the forest that offers sanctuary and not the towns.
Posted by Tim Butcher (Author)on 11-11-2008 at 20:06:40
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Don't let despair be your dominant emotion.
The Congo is a tough old place but there are people there today who are surviving and working for something better.
For them at least I let my hope overcome my despair
Originally posted by jill craven
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
Don't let despair be your dominant emotion.
The Congo is a tough old place but there are people there today who are surviving and working for something better.
For them at least I let my hope overcome my despair
Posted by jill craven (Reader) from Barnsley Libraries' Readers Groupson 11-11-2008 at 20:09:47
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
Thank you for letting me take part in this discussion- its been really enjoyable.
Originally posted by Tim Butcher
Don't let despair be your dominant emotion.
The Congo is a tough old place but there are people there today who are surviving and working for something better.
For them at least I let my hope overcome my despair
Don't let despair be your dominant emotion.
The Congo is a tough old place but there are people there today who are surviving and working for something better.
For them at least I let my hope overcome my despair
Thank you for letting me take part in this discussion- its been really enjoyable.
Posted by jennifer (Reader)on 11-11-2008 at 20:10:15
re: Questions for Tim Butcher
It is sad and shocking that even after two world wars we live in a "world at war" - mankind should have learnt from the cruel experience in the past and create a peaceful world.
Originally posted by jill craven
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
I read this message on Remembrance Day , November 11th, with a feeling of despair- does anyone else feel the same?
It is sad and shocking that even after two world wars we live in a "world at war" - mankind should have learnt from the cruel experience in the past and create a peaceful world.